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Behind The Scenes With Psyshop and Saikosounds

Blog | March 2, 2010 | Updated: June 27, 2012 | Posted by Basilisk

The psytrance industry is a motley collection of small businesses that don’t always play well together; allegations of misconduct are commonplace in this scene. These petty disputes are frequently made public on big international forums like Isratrance, particularly when disgruntled artists, lacking any other method of recourse, decide to expose shady label owners for non-payment. Obviously the camaraderie experienced on the dance floor does not always extend to backroom business dealings in this subculture. Is it because so much of this business is conducted for small amounts of money over international borders? I can’t say for certain, but there seems to be no love lost between many of the major movers and shakers in this industry.

Case in point: this exchange found on the psychedelic.be forum. Here we have a discussion between Saikosounds and Psyshop, two of the largest (if not the largest) psytrance mail order shops. Both offer in-house distribution for labels (more Psyshop than Saikosounds, really) but there isn’t much of an exchange between them. This is compounded by the rivalry between Psyshop and Wirikuta, another European distributor that deals with Saikosounds. As a result, there are many titles that are available in one shop but not the other–a big pain in the ass for psytrance fans with broad interests. Do you suppose they might work it out amongst themselves to provide a better customer experience in this era of plummeting physical media sales? The answer can be found after the break.

Saikosounds:

Hi Rolf

How are you ?

Kagdlila Recs [a psytrance label] asked me contact you about stocking their label releases.

We can supply you directly- the price is 8.17 Euro + shipping cost. As you know, this is the same price you offer your releases to us. As previously discussed with Jochen, if you want to have some two way business to balance, then we can also order some of your releases, it’s up to you.

Please let me know your order.

Thanks
Rob

Saikosounds:

Cc: “Psychooo Timooo” ; “shu-ki
golan”
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: Kagdila Recs

Hi Rolf

I didn’t get your reply on this, but I hear from Kagdila that you are not happy about the price. I don’t really understant that since it’s the same price that we pay for your releases.

I can offer you a lower price on the condtion that you offer your own releases to us on the same terms.

I can even agree to order the same quantity of your releases, if you want, so there is no balance between us. It’s up to you, but I will order at least the same quantity if you want a lower price.

And I can even agree to keep the same retail price on our website the same as yours, for all releases we are buying from each other.

So you can choose the price that suits you best.

Please let me know.

Thanks
Rob

Psyshop:

Rob
Forget it.

Under this conditions we will not work together.

By Rolf

Saikosounds:

To: “Psyshop / Rolf”
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: Kagdila Recs

Hi Rolf

Thanks for your email

Perhaps you could explain what is the problem ?

Bye for now
Rob

Psyshop:

Im tired to explain my friend…

Rolf

Saikosounds:

To: “Psyshop / Rolf”
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Kagdila Recs

Hi Rolf

Thanks for your email.

Well, in case you decide to explain, perhaps we can find a
solution.

I’ll be waiting.

Thanks
Rob

Psyshop:

Rob, I explained this now 1000 times…

…but meanwhile I accept the way you are doing your Distribution
and that you dont order our releases.

So go on with this strategy if there is a strategy at all………

By Rolf

Saikosounds:

To: “Psyshop / Rolf”
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: Kagdila Recs

Hi Rolf

We both know that you have not explained anything to me about this, since it’s the first time I have ever offered to sell CDs, that are distriubuted by Wirkuta, to you directly.

If you think you have explained it 1000 times, then it won’t hurt you to make it 1001 times, will it ? So, please…….. ? ? ?

We are not talking about distribution, we are talking about you stocking Kagdila’s releases on your website. These CDs are distributed by in Europe by Wirikuta. You have told me in the past that you won’t buy from wirikuta because they don’t order enough from you. That is obviously not a problem if you buy them from us since I can easily order more from you than you will order from us.

Personally I am also hapy to continue as we are since there are so many different options for customers in Europe to buy our CDs from. But if you want to have your CDs available in Asia, we can work something out, along the lines I have proposed earlier today.

Or we can continue without working together. I simply promised Kagdila that I would try to find a solution. But after this email if there is no further movement from your side, there is nothing more I can do.

Thanks
Rpb

Psyshop:

Hi Rob

1. Stop working with Wirikuta. 2. We can buy all releases you
print directly from you for a reasonable price.
3. You order our exclusicve releases from us.

…and we can start immideately a sucessful relationship.

By Rolf

Saikosounds:

To: “Psyshop / Rolf”
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: Kagdila Recs

Hi Rolf

You have not right to demand that we stop working with wirikuta. I am offering these products to you and it has nothing to do with wirikuta.

We are talking about Kagdila Recs releases.

Is that the same “reasonable price” in point 2. below, that you will also offer to us in point 3 ?

If the terms are equal, there should not be a problem.

Let’s say 7.50 euro plus shipping is a “reasonable price”. We pay that price for your releases. You pay that price for ours. If 7.50 is not a “reasonable price” then please tell me what you prefer. So long as it is the same price we pay for your releases, I don’t have a problem.

Thanks
Rob

Psyshop:

Rob

Our CDs are 8.17 Euro for you, as for all our customers who are ordering in those quantities. Maybe we can discuss some FOC but thats another story!

I will pay for your CDs not more than 6.50 Euro including shipping. I think this is a suitable price for the releases you hace to offer!

By Rolf

Saikosounds:

Hi Rolf

So, you want us to pay you 8.17 euro plus shipping for your CDs. So that will be more than 8.50 euro including shipping.

And you want to pay us 6.50 euro including shipping for our CDs.

Could you please explain WHY you think you have a 2 Euro advantage ?

Thanks
Rob

(Evidently Psyshop does not respond.)

Saikosounds:

Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:00:36 +0800
To: kagdilarecords@hotmail.com; chakras303@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Kagdila Recs

Guys, I think you can see that this will not lead anywhere. Psyshop is unwilling to play fair.

What you should do is to carefully explain to your atists, DJs, customers, friends, partners, and anyone else who will listen, what kind of kind of dirty dealings that they engage in. Send these emails to them. Post these emails on some internet forums if you want. I don’t mind. The more people who know, the better. People should understand this for what it is. Only when other labels and other customers understand this, and are willing to do something about it, will things change. Psyshop relies on these kind of tactics, just like the “school bully” relies on scaring other children into submission. Well, I’m not a child who gets scared easily :-)

You can’t say that I haven’t tried to fix this.

Bye for now
Rob

Psyshop:

Subject: Re: Kagdila Recs
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:22:41 +0100
From: Psyshop / Rolf <service@psyshop.com>
To: Saikosounds rob <rob@saikosounds.com>

You dont see any difference between your CDs and our releases ?

You dont know the difference between Sun Project Album and a Kagdilia
Compilation.?
You dont know the difference between Liquid Soul and Tristan Boyle ?
Come on Rob, I thought you were djing once ?

Please dont compare our releases……… Believe me Rob I dont want to be
conceited.. but if you dont hear the difference…. ???

By Rolf

It does not appear that Psyshop has any interest in dealing fairly with Saikosounds (or Wirikuta for that matter–I wonder what the deal is there). This is really no surprise; Psyshop’s reputation isn’t exactly stellar. And people wonder why the psytrance industry is falling apart? A little cooperation goes a long way.

Anyhow, I found this to be an insightful look into the sort of stuff that goes on behind the scenes. Much like the Shpongle contract leak (context), it’s fair game once it hits the net. Besides, I haven’t picked on Psyshop in a little while.

Update: added the last response from Rolf to finish the conversation.

Photo credit: Okinawa Soba.


30 Comments

  • dachande says:

    This is some serious shit.

    Psyshop has never been very friendly and forthcoming to anyone including their customers as long as I can imagine. In my opinion, all that matters to them is profit. Nothing else. That’s why I already stopped ordering my records there some time ago. Instead I mostly buy from Beatspace. They are a bit more expensive than Psyshop but at least they have a great customer support, and that’s what matters most for me.

    The Problem is, that their behavior won’t change as long as they have enough customers who buy their records.

    Cheers

  • sq2 says:

    there… one of the main reasons i withdrew from this scene: the drug addled jaded lack of professionalism. still always keen to be a punter and listen to the fine music that flows through its veins!

  • Tomé says:

    I wonder what drugs have to do with the lack of professionalism

    Plenty of scenes are blossoming under the influence of some heavy shit

    There is no pointing fingers, it is a matter of human character period

  • I never liked dealing with Psyshop anyway. They’re slow and don’t respond to emails, like above.
    I’m glad to see I wasn’t the only one.
    I’ve been dealing with Saiko Sounds for about 8 years and have yet to be disappointed, I order on a Monday and get my stuff Wednesday morning, from Japan to Chicago, IL usa
    Plus, I always get soem sort of goodies in every package even if my orders are under $100.00 US
    It plainly reads [above] as if Saiko is trying to find a common space for Kagdila to be happy getting his stuff to the masses in other markets. Shu-ki @ Kagdila is another great guy to deal with, the guy called me personally from his home to tell me soemthing was out of stock, and if there were another release I would like instead.
    Now that’s professionalism.
    I don’t order music from anyone besides these two.
    I found my sources and they look out for their customers.

  • Klinki says:

    It should be the bavarian archetype who is haunting around. ;)

    cheers,
    +++Klinki

  • rf says:

    What’s the point of sharing this information, why is there a need to involve outside people into this? I think people should think for themselves and decide who they buy CDs from based on their own experiences not someone else’s. Personally I don’t buy CDs from any of them anymore. Saikosounds has a very strange system that requires an account and when it didn’t work for me I never got an answer Psyshop and Wirikuta have a very limited selection outside of new releases and those weird VA compilations. So on the rare occasions that I do buy CDs I just get it from Amazon or Discogs.

    But still, why involve people in their disputes, can’t they settle this themselves. How can we be asked to pass judgements when the information is provided by only one side, no access to back story, context or pretext?

    In this day and age everything seems to be judged by someone else, we read these reviews and assigned numerical values to experiences and act upon that information completely ignoring our own personal feelings and thoughts.

    In any regard my personal contribution is continued support for the releases here, that should give the labels a run for their money. At least until they start taking music seriously and stop stamping these CDs and expect people to buy them based on reviews. Until they will start being more open about what’s inside the shrinkwrap before I pay my hard earned dollars, I’ll stick with the more eager and open artists that are all about show and tell.

  • Digitoxin says:

    Well for me the experience was totally different: While psyshop instantly orderes my releases (i own Phototropic Records) and organisation is quite professional, Saikosounds only made nonsense comments and then did not even order my latest release (Goatronika) when i talked to them in January.

    Saikosounds doesn’t need to complain about prices when they can buy at the same price as Psyshop from me but they don’t even order at all or only after weeks or months of delay.

    So from a professional view i had good experiences with Psyshop and bad ones with Saikosounds.

  • Raphael says:

    I could add another couple of ugly stories about psyhop, but I don’t. I just say: Everybody, don’t buy from psyshop, they are killing our culture. And I don’t even have to be afraid, that they would boykott my releases for saying this, since they boykott any non-mainstream release anyways.

  • Nefig says:

    I trust an opinion of “hector the dark” author :)
    Screw psyshop then!

  • TMX says:

    Digitoxin, your reputation is far from laudable,
    Should i remember you that these people deal in money, they are only interested by the colors of it, indeed they are extremely professional when it comes to shady deals and profits. they only offer mainstream music, popular yet non-creative music, slip your wrist music.
    And beside, not ordering a release for a certain label doesn’t mean they are not serious or professional, they just felt the need for something better, i think..
    And by the way, i both like them,

  • Raphus says:

    Rf pointed out a very important fact- no one should post private conversations over a web saying that ‘they r bad,we r good’ – im sure this story has its “other side of the coin” anyway.

  • rf says:

    I was saying there is not enough information to go by, even in the e-mail they mention another conversation and other people involved. From the context it’s pretty obvious what psyshop is doing. It’s just that being greedy is not really a crime. More like a sin. And then what, posting pictures of women who have sex before marriage? When will that happen? And what resolution can we expect? Videos? HD? Anyway, I am just throwing ideas out there, whatever. I am just saying if it ever becomes DVD worthy, that’s just stellar.

    Rather then pointing out their flaws I find that promoting alternatives and other sources is more effective, it certainly worked for me.

    Also I got this bomb idea, cancel psy trance, and make PsyShopTrance !

  • Raphus says:

    Heheh… it’s all about money. I was wondering where is a place for simple love and passion to the music it’s all about?! Those ideas r always vanishing when bigger amount of money is involved. Sad sad fuckin sad!!! And ridiculous. Also. Of course it’s SAD that psyshop don’t have an option to post an answer to this – propably not. Or maybe they shld put a big banner on their homepage “battle with wirikuta” ot smtg ;) and let ppl know their version of that story.

  • rf says:

    ” I was wondering where is a place for simple love and passion to the music it’s all about?! ”

    I reckon this be here.

  • i wouldn’t post this publicly. it makes bad blood. he i guess i shouldn’t talk as i’m a known blabber. the fact of markets are- psyshop is largely european, saikosounds is largely asian, and north/south america can go ummm somewhere… beatport is probably kicking everyones ass and no one buys cd’s anyway- they just rip em or download em. in countries where copyright police visit clubs/parties then you start to see originals. mostly you see over-representation of a distributors exclusives and underrepresentation of anything indie (industry wide)
    you see certain well places releases hitting the sweet spot between club and underground- and they do best on the big portals for dance music…
    psy has always had a different culture in terms of product and now its come full circle as the vinyl labels are all digital and the psy cd’s are homeless…
    ah i should bitch some more i guess…. how about the vast amount of low quality product out there and the fact that you have as good a chance of success finding music you will like here on ektoplasm as on any cd for sale…

  • TMX says:

    Psy-trance is not suited for CD releases, the complete thing relies on parties and assemblies around the globe, now partially replaced by the Net, the whole culture attracts certain individuals who feels the need to listen this genre, so they start digging and collecting as much music as they can get, whether it’s good or crap, that’s where distributors like psychop come into…
    It’s a natural surge, some people use these feelings and emotions and excitements to make some money, i’m not telling they are greedy but, come on, it’s a community…
    The low quality products exist because of that, and that’s why i found Ektoplazm so exciting (Because it is not about the money)
    I would rather buy the media\music directly from the artist to support him…

  • L.R says:

    Yes my friends. All of this is pure true ! Psyshop try to ruin Wirikuta.
    Saikosounds give an hand for wirikuta.
    That makes Rolf hungry.
    All this story is real and I been there, I see it and listen all but that is not the most important thing ! F.. them ! The worse thing is labels like me, who lost all the releases delivered to wirikuta because they can not pay labels or distribution company’s anymore as they are hanging on Saikosounds to keep the store alive and to pay personal bills !!
    Even I have lost all the releases delivered to wirikuta and money from sells, I will keep my point of view about psyshop as I would say , they are the scam of the psytrace community with a few more tunas who love psytrance for the money make.
    They are responsible for this to happen. I listen the well of what this Rolf have been doing from the main people. His main interest is to have his own exclusives labels and totally ruin the other shops.
    At the end, is they’re battle but who’s paying is the labels and artists.
    Sad to see this happen as I am not the only one losing money with this money maker hypocrisy.
    Cds are now sold direct to our costumers in our own website and that is the save way to go.
    I never expect to make lots of money with psy trance music anyway.
    Some people do for money, some people do for love, is like F…k !
    By now, Psyshop is a dirty name in the music market.

  • Psydweller says:

    At first I thought posting some private mails was in bad taste but really, aren’t these people the same who say piracy has been destroying the scene? The issue is more complex, perhaps some bad blood between shops, labels, distributors, artists, and party organizers contributes much to the situation. If that is the case then having this discussion is very worthwhile. Here we can get a hint of what really goes on and it isn’t pretty!

    I wonder what Psyshop has to say about all this? It’s just business?

    OK so I revise my expectations, seeing this public might be good after all. It got this discussion going!

  • K Lycan says:

    Hehe, being Belgian-based, I first perused this drama on Psychedelic.be ; rather amazing to see content like this floating around the web!

    As a label still dealing with physical CD sales, it’s interesting to note the baseline calculation of .33 € for each CD shipped – and that is with large (combined) shipments. That is just 1 time shipping, but your CD actually gets shipped 2 to 3 times, factory to label to distributor to you or sometimes straight from factory to distribution to you. As a label, it hurts to spend money to move these babies around, not only financially but also, there is a heavy environmental cost. If we stay on the path of technological innovation and do not collapse as a civilization, long term, I think you would get stuff like this in a print-on-demand kiosk fashion at future’s version of your local fax/copy/print shop. The print on demand stuff is taking off – see ReverbNations parternship with Audiolife…it just does not work for us, but it should work great for other labels and independent artists…..

    ….Anyway, for anyone who cares, Lycantrop is committed to staying in the CD game (own shop, plus distribution) for at least our first 10 releases: as a thank you to the supporters who love CDs and artwork enough to invest, our 1st 10 Cds make a boxed set with a special image appearing when you stack the CDs side by side. :-)

  • AEONMAGNUS says:

    Finaly Money is not all, it is like behind the title behind the title, behind everything there is a history, it is about yourself to find out the truth, you know one of the classicss? The truth of communication. Behind every CD there is a history, even Label Keeper, Record Lover, Record Seller.
    I heard about Kagdilias Waveriding Experience and about the jung Beligican, who helped Kagdilia navigating out of the Dark future. When I hear friends interrested to put Wedges that the Label get stability it is the best experience that I hear about, we are interested to support ourselfes, it is the positiviest way we can walk together. I know how hard it is to come home after work from the callcenter where the boss self dos not know himself phoneselling, but askes you to sell everyone something, even that person that calls you that the internet does not work for months!!! And you must sell Him also an internet produkt or a mobile phone , without having it on the place, without knowing its funktions? So back on track! I bought often CDs at Psyshop, also I do with the small 45 sec prelistening Samples, the song in the brain was constructed itself and when the CD arrived the song was just in the 45 sec sample great and after the CD arrived the complete CDs flavour lost, because CD was not how the first impression was. So the beginning of Saiko Sounds buying was born, Sample long enough, basses well h(e)ard, nothing missed. Forget about bigger greater for the costs of smaller, bank crises happen once, we do not support this kind of thinking through our dance experience, we are humans , not AsXXXX to other, when we leave the Dancefloors!!!
    Positive Mailing Experience with Psyshop and Saikosounds anyway, ( it depends the context, it is not the question to write letters , also one lives in HongKong the other Lives in Germany, what you have you have, can you go yourself so fast, honour our possibilities) in writing, sending and others. Now both Dealers are surely not small, when about to save a Label who has stuff for comun clients, I made my professionality as Record seller in World of Music, i recogognized the buying from EMI Virgin BMG Sony Music and others big, also closing from one small alternative record label. I can not Imaginge, that by that form of communication and also our experiences on our dancefloors the one with some € more per CD in his pocket looks happy in the mirror when he goes to toilett and the next one is looking his face seeing all that truth going out of his face, or will he be suddenly anonymus to himsellerself?. Here is the same situation where the sellers self gives me the power to fix this money problem in our scene, by God I will do and his and my will and earn for my soul love and our future here in our scene that I have to share with you, we all are here identified as Musicpsychedliclovers here, practising the Dancefloor and Chllout-relax-floor-experience together. And everyone is an individum who has the right to be respected and to respect others. Do only things to others, you apreciate the other would do it back to you. No one hear clsosed his sound in the cupboard anymore.
    Here is my Plan: Wirikuta gets help by Psyshops Webshopdesigning, must have a banner on their own side on the bottom: Supported by Psyshop with the Link to Psyshop, by making a Contract beginning itself that what Wirikuta winns more from that point of beginning contract signed gives from the clear profit only when it is higher, 20% to psyshop and 10% for a good reason. Psyshop as Partner of Wirikuta seems also on the Left Side of It Webshoppage a Link to Wirikuta as Accordance. For the Forcifying of stability for all Partners including SaikoSounds they have to deal out the same prices per CD including shipping, also in reverse on trough the complete industrie and print industrie and back, now known about the Ecosystems, Saiko gets from the WEST the Know How for Producing CD Cover with Clear Produkts, like in the NewsPaperPress we know that not only in BlackColourPrints often is Petrol Found and so on. Saiko Sounds Looks for Natural applications on CD Cover Vinyl and also on Clothes, everything absolutely clear. By this way we know Clothing and our holy DJ Equipment should be furniture Support by SaikoSounds, Saikosounds gets the power to make sink the price for Hardware that we can combine easyly with different places, ideas per Electromail, gives the order for space design to the “cleared” Industries in its country and “neighbourhood”,
    Malfunktion CD-Drive, SaikoSounds find out a way with its TechnoServiceKnowlege how to ship Cheap fast and secure HighPrised DJ Equipment for repairing services. Also keeps SaikoSound its Royality for its Special Assortment that is no accomplishing of Wirikuta or Psyshop and keeps independent, by GoodWill when all Partners on round Table, can decide to give the 10% from Clear win by royality will for a good reason to a neighbour who has not the possibility or to support a Label that is in Difficulties.
    For Deals Solutions Jobs Questions or German Traduction feel free to write me on my Myspace or email, what yu want.

  • Robert says:

    “there… one of the main reasons i withdrew from this scene: the drug addled jaded lack of professionalism. still always keen to be a punter and listen to the fine music that flows through its veins!”

    i hear you bro… i was in this scene for more than 10 years, involved in some pretty big projects and with some serious connections. but i had to leave it – the shit level of professionalism, the gross pettiness, the backstabing, the massive egos for such a relativelly small scene – i mean they think they are maddona or something… and all for what?? no thanks, it is much easier now just enjoying what there is to enjoy in this scene from a distance and putting my energy and money into much more rewarding things in life…

    drug addled sure, but who really can tell how much the drugs have to do with it? maybe it’s more like this scene attracts a certain type of insecure people with personality shortcomings… the drugs are their crutch, but not the cause…

    peace

  • Perfundo says:

    Saiko Sounds are awesome. If only they kept a few more CDs in stock, they would be even better.

  • refused says:

    psyshop also does have a point. If Psyshop thinks their stuff is better they have the right to ask for a price they think is right and also offer a price they are willing to buy. Every artist’s music is different and if it was supposed to be equal value, it would be like dealing blank empty cdrs.

    But the thing is all cds are sold at the same price individually on these two websites, except the sale items. which is a great thing.

    also psyshop asking saikosounds not to deal with wiritika is a topic on its own.

  • September Rains says:

    Maybe Psyshop has good reason not to deal with Wirikuta… I know of at least one label who havesn’t been paid what they’re owed by Wiri in well over a year. They used to be good but I guess they are feeling the pinch too. Just sucks when you see that label’s cds for sale and getting ‘restocked’ by online stores but none of that money goes to the artist or label. No wonder you get places like psyshop ‘afraid’ to release anything that isn’t cookiecutter. They have gone the same way as the major labels conservatism. I say support the free releases, buy proper releases direct from the label and avoid places like psyshop & beatport.

  • anonymous says:

    This small scene behaves like an industry ! What the hell is wrong with everyone. If we had to do this, why did we get into Psytrance and wthis style of music? Should have gone into Hip Hop?
    The artists behave like they are as big as Metallica or Brian Adams, and on the other hand the true real bands that have blasted the world with epic music and millions of record sales are as modest as the word itself ! This scene disgusts me more and more everyday.

  • john says:

    Let me tell you , i worked for and have been involved with a good few labels in the psytrance and psychill scene and i hate to say it but this whole lot are what we call in the uk a bunch of shit heads.I had personally dealing with both this big idiot at psyshop called Rolf and also this narrow minded little moron called rob saiko , the pair of them are nasty nasty human beings , both are cold ruthless businessmen , they are everything psycehdelic does not represent , rolf is a typical cold german who i think must liek wipping people , rob saiko is a paranoid scitzo who you cna have a discussion with without him thinking you want to steal from him .I have seen those 2 c…..ts fuck labels about so much , to deal with them you need to let them fuck you , its that simple , they name the cd price , they control the whole game and i have to say it was what made me retire from trying to run a label , those 2 idiots fionished me off asthey had the monopoly and just wanted cheaper and cheaper cd , horrible excuses for human beings those 2 as they just dont get the idea of a small label and small runs of cd.Wirikuta were just the same only even more so and i avoided them from day one .In the end the problem is morons keep buying cds from them istead of supporting the labels or artists direct as they are cheap , Psyshop and Saiko are like Tecos , wallmart only they claim to be ‘ open minded ‘ .Take my word for it , Psyshop and saiko have been the death of many labels , i know that for a fact .I rate them in the same league as george bush and tony blair , they are PARASITES and greedy capitalists rather than ethical small businesses.Yes you cna make a living but when labels become slaves to these arseholes we have a problem and thats where its at , some labels can work with these people well as they want to sell cd for $4 each and want to be in this game but when you mentionm Rob saiko or Rolf Psyshop to me i am afraid i see stalin , blair , bush . These two have very low grade souls.

  • Kevin says:

    That’s an interesting opinion, John. They just want cheaper and cheaper CDs ? I have a label that has been distributed by both psyshop and saikosounds and never has either of them ever tried to reduce the price they pay, and this is over a period of 7 years, so I think I know what I’m talking about.

  • Bheeshma says:

    “You dont know the difference between Sun Project Album and a Kagdilia Compilation.?
    You dont know the difference between Liquid Soul and Tristan Boyle ?”

    What the hell does that mean?

  • Kevin says:

    It means hubris of the highest order.

  • Samuel says:

    TMX wrote: “Psy-trance is not suited for CD releases, the complete thing relies on parties and assemblies around the globe, now partially replaced by the Net, the whole culture attracts certain individuals who feels the need to listen this genre, so they start digging and collecting as much music as they can get, whether it’s good or crap, that’s where distributors like psyshop come into…”

    Narrow view on the world of psytrance music. If psy music is not suited for CD releases (or vinyl, wav files or whatever other media), then this whole debate is meaningless. It would be like claiming that movie theaters are THE real thing for specific kind of films, while the DVD is not designed to promote it.

    Yes, I am part of those “certain individuals” who love to listen and collect good psy music. And I’m not ashamed to tell that I’ve bought hundreds of downloads & CDs online via the net. It is not just a whim. I know the bio of each artist on all of my albums and compilations, I listen and listen again, relishing the differences in sounds and styles, sharing CDs with my family and friends.
    90% of the CDs I bought are from Psyshop. Why psyshop? Simply because it has always provided me good service, answered my questions & requests by email, delivered the goods on predicted time, AND offers the best prices on the net. Even though I live in Canada, buying an Altar Record’s CD (made in Canada) cost less from Psyshop (shipping charges incl.) than buying directly from Altar. Go figure…

    So who said Psyshop tries to kill psy music market? I rather think that he promotes it.

    And never forget: There’s no accounting for taste.